Thursday, 01 October 2009 | |
The TRT interview with Sedat Laciner, the Director of International Strategic Research Organization, «Turkey Made The World Remember Karabakh Conflict» published in www.HistoryofTruth.com on 30 September 2009, concerning the protocols that will allegedly be signed on October 10 by Turkey and Armenia, is replete with perceptions and/or predictions that I find hard to accept or support. I decided to share with my readers my responses to that interview on a line-by-line basis.
… TRT: Why Switzerland? LACINER: First of all, it is hard to find countries that do not support Armenian allegations. (EK: There are no countries in the entire continents of Asia or Africa which support Armenian allegations. There are only three countries in Latin America and only two in North America which support Armenian allegations (all because of the Armenian political pressure.) Out of 55 or so countries in Europe, small or large, only 15 support Armenian allegations (also because of the Armenian political intimidation.) In summary, out of some 204 countries which are members of the U.N., only about 20 countries support Armenian allegations-i.e. less than 10 percent. Therefore, to say «it is hard to find countries that do not support Armenian allegations» is incorrect, unfair, and if not based on ignorance or sloppiness, may be even considered malicious.) LACINER: … Of course it would be better if it would be an objective country like England, (EK: England? Objective? Really? England is the one party that is most responsible for the continuation of the genocide allegations today which are based on the Blue Book, wartime propaganda material compiled and edited by Toynbee and Bryce. The Turkish parliament in 2005 sent a joint letter/request to the House of Commons and Lords to take back the hearsay and forgeries contained in that book and apologize to Turkey for causing immeasurable suffering by deliberately spreading falsified information. England was at the heart of using Ottoman-Armenians against the Ottoman Empire before, during, and after the WWI. To call England objective would be to ignore history.) LACINER: …but the mission of mediation is an important factor here. Switzerland was not very ambitious for mediation. (EK: It is unacceptable, if not also embarrassing, to have to go to Switzerland, hat in hand, and asking for their mediation. Switzerland has passed a law banning questioning a certain characterization of a historic event without the court verdict supporting such ban. Thus, the Swiss have chosen to be a party to the conflict. Who are these Turkish negotiators who ignorantly brought Switzerland into this conflict, much less begged for their mediation? Don’t they have any idea what happened in 1920 in a small town called Sevres just a few kilometers from where they are? Did they forget about spirit of Lausanne 1923?) LACINER: … On the other hand, it could be an advantage for Turkey that Switzerland previously gave support to the Armenian allegations. (EK: How can Switzerland’s blatantly pro-Armenian beliefs and policies be an advantage? How can any logical and informed person believe such a naïve suggestion?) LACINER: … Turkey can make itself understood better and same time it can strengthen its thesis. (EK: Turkey needs Switzerland to be understood? Or strengthen its thesis? Is it not strong enough now? How can it be stronger by talking to the Swiss?) TRT: What is the position of Azerbaijan? LACINER: Turkey is already making all steps with Azerbaijan. Karabakh problem is as important as the issue of so called Armenian genocide for Turkey. Turkey already declared this and Prime Minister several times underlined that fact. In the process, if we count Switzerland, Azerbaijan is like a fourth party. Besides, Turkey and Azerbaijan constantly share information about the processes. Azerbaijan is being informed about developments, other than that Turkey took the approval of Azerbaijan about this issue. Azerbaijan is aware of Turkey’s good will and they trust Turkey. (EK: Is that why Aliyev hastily went to Russia last May to promise Nabucco-earmarked gas to Russian gas pipeline as soon as news of Turkey-Armenia border opening hit the Turkish media? Because Azerbaijan trusts Turkey?) LACINER: … The World was unaware of the occupation in Karabakh till now. The land that Armenia keeps under occupation is more than the land that Israel invaded. Turkey made the world realize the occupation in Nagorno-Karabakh. TRT: What will be the gains of Turkey? LACINER: Success of protocols is dependent on the process of resolution of Nagorno-Karabakh problem, and that is told to Obama, Russia and France. The next meeting towards resolution of Nagorno-Karabakh conflict will be in a much more serious mood. (EK: We will see soon enough, won’t we? Too much is bet on too few «perceived» gains that are questionable and doubtful.) LACINER: … First of all, this process (alone) is the gain of Turkey by itself. (EK: Says who?) LACINER: … In the opinion of international community, Turkey had an image like Turkey was smothering Armenia and not letting it develop. By this process Turkey proved that it is not aggressive. (EK: Not a convincing argument. Even if it were true, does the dubious outcome justify the high cost?) LACINER: … If protocols can be realized Turkey will gain many more advantages. A committee of historians is planned to be established. Such a committee may undermine the genocide allegations of Armenian Diaspora. Although there are rumours about borders, recognition of borders clearly mentioned in protocols. Although Armenia does not recognize treaty of Kars now, they will be recognizing it through protocols. Dashnaks are very uncomfortable that ratifying protocols will mean that Armenia recognizes Turkey’s territorial integrity. (EK: As you read these lines, Armenia’s constitution still refers to eastern Anatolia as Western Armenia. Armenia’s politicians and Diaspora make no secret of the fact that they want land and reparations fro Turkey. So, what exactly does it mean to say «recognition of borders clearly mentioned in protocols»? At the first opportunity, cannot Armenia easily say «Yes, Turks put that statement in the protocol, but we never agreed to it»? Then what? LACINER: … What will be the gains of Turkey? We can count three of them. First is recognition of borders, (EK: Let’s not count the eggs before the chickens lay them. We don’t even have chickens yet…) LACINER: … second is about genocide allegations, and third is Nagorno-Karabakh problem. (EK: Protocol before resolution in Karabagh or resolution in Karabagh before protocol? That is the question. It should have been the latter. Now a resolution in Karabagh will be harder. Why would Armenia feel motivated to end its military occupation and allow Azeri refugees to return now that Armenia got what it wanted?) LACINER: … Normalization of relations would be the fourth gaining for Turkey. TRT: What kind of developments are expected to happen in Armenia and Caucasus? LACINER: … Opening of borders will affect Russia. (EK: After the Georgian war, Russia was trapped in Armenia. Turkey, through its ill-advised protocols with Armenia, not only saved Armenia but also Russia-in-Armenia.) LACINER: … But the main problem might be the situation of Georgia. Since Armenia and Azerbaijan use Georgia as a route for transportation, the influence of Georgia will decrease. On the other hand, Azerbaijan will have another gate to World and it will be relaxing for Azerbaijan. But we should not be expecting results so soon. Moving in hurry may cause conflicts in Nagorno-Karabakh. (EK: Diplomacy and international relations are a balancing act of interests, not unlike a trade. The Turkish term describes it bets: «alis-veris» taking-and-giving. What these protocols represent fro Turkey is «veris-veris», giving-and-giving.) What if we lose Azerbaijan’s friendship and support because of a murky dealing with Armenia? Who will fill the Baku-Tiflis-Ceyhan pipeline with oil? Nothing would make me happier that to be proven wrong on all of the above. But I don’t hold out any hope that the upcoming developments will prove me wrong anytime soon… |
Category: Main Issues
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TURKEY MADE THE WORLD REMEMBER KARABAKH CONFLICT… BUT AT WHAT COST?
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ARMENIA WILL SIGN THE PROTOCOLS,
SAYS TURKISH POLITICIAN BACK FROM YEREVAN Thursday, 08 October 2009 The leader of the Liberal Democratic Party, who was in Yerevan recently, said he believes Armenia will sign the protocol and pass it through its parliament, despite objection from the opposition.Involved in civil dialogue with the Armenians since 2008, Cem Toker said the image of Turks and Turkey is changing over the course of the reconciliation process that started with last year’s visit by Turkish President Abdullah Gul to Yerevan to watch a football match. Toker, who has been to Armenia at least three times during the past 18 months, has met President Abdullah Gul to brief him about his impressions of Armernia. Gul made a bold decision to go to Yerevan last year, said Toker, who recalled that contradictory statements later came from Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan during his visit to Azerbaijan.“I wanted to support Gul,” he said of his visit to the Office of the Presidency, which lasted half an hour more than planned.The Armenian approach to Turkey has started to change, especially after Gul’s visit to Yerevan, Toker told the Hurriyet Daily News and Economic Review. “There is tremendous potential to forge friendship between the two countries,” said Toker. “Everyone has a tragic story about the 1915 events. But every tragic story also comes with a good story. They would tell stories of how family members were sent into exile and stories of how neighbors had saved lives by providing shelter and food.”Toker said he has never used rhetoric that would imply recognition of the Armenian claims that the World War I mass killings at the hands of the Ottomans amount to genocide. “People are innocent until proven guilty beyond a doubt. What has been accounted by grandfathers or great-grandmothers does not prove there has been genocide,” said Toker. “I have told the Armenians that even God cannot change the past. But we have to leave the past behind and look to the future,” he said.There is, however, a strong presence of nationalism as well, according to Toker. “I have seen in shops maps showing eastern Turkey as part of Armenia hanging on the walls. There are still people who believe that the eastern part of Turkey belongs to Armenia and that one day it will be taken back,” he said.Toker said there is tremendous reaction to the fact that a commission will be established to investigate past events as part of the agreements between the two governments. He expressed optimism however, saying that the documents will be endorsed by the Armenian parliament. -
Turkey Sidesteps Obstacle to Armenia Pact
By MARC CHAMPION in Istanbul and NICHOLAS BIRCH in Kars, Turkey
Turkey has dropped a key condition to signing an agreement Saturday that would reopen its border with Armenia and establish diplomatic relations between the two nations, which have been divided for generations by a dispute over genocide.
“The agreement will be signed on Oct. 10,” Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan told The Wall Street Journal — provided, he said, that Armenia doesn’t ask for changes to the text.
Agence France-Presse/Getty ImagesArmenians in Lebanon on Monday protested efforts to establish diplomatic ties between Armenia and Turkey.
Supporters of the pact — which include the U.S. and the European Union — say they hope the change could trigger a virtuous cycle, opening up and stabilizing a region that is increasingly important for oil and gas transit and last year saw a war between Russia and Georgia.
But in Kars, the Turkish city closest to the Armenian border, skeptics point to a concrete monument to unity between the two peoples to show why an embrace between neighbors is far from certain.
The statue of two 100-foot tall human figures, standing face to face on a hill above the city, is incomplete: A giant hand that would join the figures was never attached.
It lies abandoned on the gravel below.
In an exclusive interview, Turkey’s Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan discusses Iran’s nuclear aspirations, Israel and the ongoing border dispute with Armenia.The monument, built last year, is now under threat of destruction.
“Small-minded people blocked the monument and they will block the peace process too,” says Naif Alibeyoglu, who had the statue built when he was mayor of Kars. His 10 years in office ended in March. “You wait and see, [the deal] will end up like my statue: a statue without hands.”
Supporters of the agreement, however, have sidestepped a significant hurdle: Turkish Prime Minister Erdogan said in an interview Sunday that the signing wasn’t dependent on progress at talks this week between the leaders of Armenia and Azerbaijan over their territorial conflict in Nagorno-Karabakh.
Drumbeat for IMF Change on Streets of Istanbul
4:27With the Group of Eight giving way to the Group of 20 to better represent the emerging world, WSJ’s Andy Jordan says the focus has shifted to how the International Monetary Fund can change its image as an old boys’ network that caters to the whims of rich countries.
Dangerous Relations
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See some recent key events in the standoff between Turkey and Armenia.
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It was because of Armenia’s effective occupation of the ethnic Armenian enclave in Azerbaijan that Turkey closed the border in 1993.
An earlier attempt to sign the protocol in April stalled when Mr. Erdogan said it could go forward only after the Karabakh conflict was resolved.
The parliaments of Armenia and Turkey need to ratify the protocol for it to take force, something Mr. Erdogan said he couldn’t guarantee, as parliamentarians in Ankara would have a free vote in a secret ballot.
Mr. Erdogan also said the two processes — a resolution of the Karabakh conflict and rapprochement between Turkey and Armenia — remain linked, and that a positive outcome at this week’s talks, to be held in Moldova, would help overall.
Turkish officials have continued to indicate that the border could take longer to open than the three months set out in the three-page protocol.
The Turkish leader said the only obstacle to signing the deal Saturday would come if Armenia seeks to alter the text.
“This is perhaps the most important point — that Armenia should not allow its policies to be taken hostage by the Armenian diaspora,” Mr. Erdogan said. Much of Armenia’s large diaspora opposes the protocol.
Nicholas Birch for The Wall Street JournalThe hand was intended for a monument in Turkey to amity between the neighbors, but never attached.
A spokesman for Armenian President Serge Sarkisian declined to comment on whether Armenia would seek changes to the protocol.
He said the government would soon make a statement on “steps” concerning the protocol.
Mr. Sarkisian has spent the week on a multination tour to explain his position to diaspora groups, some of which have protested the pact.
Opponents say it will be used by Turkey to reduce international pressure on it to recognize as genocide the 1915 slaughter of up to 1.5 million ethnic Armenians in what was then the Ottoman Empire.
The protocol would recognize the current frontier between Turkey and Armenia, and would set up a joint commission to review issues of history, likely to include the 1915 massacres. Turkey says they were collateral deaths during what amounted to civil war during World War I.
Mr. Alibeyoglu, the former Kars mayor, worked hard to improve relations between his city — a former Armenian capital that changed hands and populations several times over centuries — and its natural hinterland, the Caucasus.
He invited Armenian, Azeri and Georgian artists to festivals, signed sister-city agreements with cities across the region and, in 2004, gathered 50,000 signatures for a petition demanding the opening of the Turkish-Armenian border.
Kars would stand to benefit from the ability to trade across a border 25 miles away by train and truck.
But some 20% of the city’s population are ethnic Azerbaijanis, who consider opening the border while Armenia remains in control of a fifth of Azerbaijan’s territory a betrayal.
Sculptor Mehmet Aksoy says he abandoned his plan to run water down the statues to pool as tears, because nationalists complained these would be tears of Armenian rejoicing at reclaiming territory.
Indeed, one complaint of nationalist opponents of the protocol in Armenia is that the treaty’s recognition of current borders would prevent any future claim to the swathe of Eastern Turkey that Armenia won in a 1920 treaty, only to lose it again in the 1921 Treaty of Kars between Russia and Turkey.
“Why is one figure standing with its head bowed, as if ashamed?” asks Oktay Aktas, an ethnic Azeri and local head of the Nationalist Action Party, or MHP, who wants the statue torn down. “Turkey has nothing to be ashamed of.”
In fact, the two figures stand ramrod straight.
On the other side of the border, Armenian nationalists have taken to the streets to protest the pact with Turkey.
Turkey and Armenia are “like two neighbors who do not know each other,” says Mr. Alibeyoglu, who in 2004 organized a petition to open the border. “Is he a terrorist? A mafioso? We needed to break the ice.”
Nationalists applied to Turkey’s Commission for Monuments to get construction of the monument stopped, on the basis that a viewing platform was built without permission.
In November, the commission ordered that it be demolished.
The monument’s fate awaits a decision from the central government in Ankara.
Printed in The Wall Street Journal, page A10
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Erdogan Tells WSJ Ready to Sign Protocols, Regardless of Moldova Outcome
ANKARA (WSJ)–The Wall Street Journal Tuesday afternoon reported that Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan said in an interview that the signing of the Armenia-Turkey protocols was not dependent on progress of talks to be held Thursday in Moldova between the Armenian and Azeri presidents.
“The agreement will be signed on Oct. 10. It doesn’t have anything to do with what happens in Moldova,” Erdogan told the Wall Street Journal Sunday.
Erdogan also said the two processes — a resolution of the Karabakh conflict and rapprochement between Turkey and Armenia — remain linked, and that a positive outcome in Moldova would help overall. Turkish officials have continued to indicate the border could take longer to open than the three months set out in the three-page protocol.
The Turkish leader said the only obstacle to signing the deal on Saturday would come if Armenia seeks to alter the text. “This is perhaps the most important point — that Armenia should not allow its policies to be taken hostage by the Armenian diaspora,” Mr. Erdogan said. Much of Armenia’s large diaspora opposes the protocol.
A spokesman for Armenia President Serzh Sarkisian declined to comment on whether Armenia would seek changes to the protocol. He said the government would make a statement on “steps” concerning the protocol soon.
Visit www.wsj.com for the complete article.
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Uruguay Armenians Demonstrate Against Protocols
Posted on 08 October 2009.
Like is being done in various countries of the world, Sunday 4th October was Uruguay’s turn to manifest against the protocols signed between Armenia and Turkey and it was made through a rally organized by the Armenian Cause Committee of Uruguay, at the monument which remembers the Armenian martyrs opposite Surp Nerses Shnorhali Church.
A large Armenian presence was part of the event in which representatives of different institutions expressed their message about the posed situation, as well as some political personalities of Uruguay.
In behalf of the Armenian Cause Committee of Uruguay, Raffi Unanian emphasized that the Diaspora should revert the situation as a point of no return could be reached. The points made in the protocols establishing solutions that are disastrous and a slap to all Armenians in the world that were forced to leave their lands as consequence of the genocide. The signing of the protocols is also leaving on the way the Sevres Treaty so vindicated by the Armenian people. The Diaspora Armenians have the right to express our voice on the delicate topics that are at stake here.
Raffi Unanian finished his participation with a quote of the national hero José Artigas: “We won’t sell the rich oriental patrimony, to the vile price of necessity .”
Later, the President of the International Affairs of the Representatives House and the International Affairs Commission of the Mercosur Parliament, Deputy Ruben Martinez Huelmo pointed out that “It’s absurd the set out of an expert’s commission to determine the genocide existence, as it would be absurd today that a commission pointed out that the Jewish holocaust didn’t happened”. He stressed “We can’t allow this, because the Armenian genocide it’s not a topic only for the Armenian people but from all the international community. The ratification of the protocols would constitute a “legal denial”. We have to invite non Armenian communities to participate, as it is a matter of universal moral.”
The Deputy Pablo Abdala, who participated in the act, said: “The recognition of the Armenian genocide must be full and complete by all the countries in the international community. The protocols will be a delay in the way to this, that’s why we should double our efforts not only by Armenians but also by us, who are their friends, until the truth prevails.”
From: Javid Huseynov [[email protected]]
Armenians protesting in Uruguay
Look at the number of Armenians in Uruguay… significant.
Uruguay Armenians Demonstrate Against Protocols