Aid from Armenia to Turkey Generates Heated Debate Among Armenians

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14 responses to “Aid from Armenia to Turkey Generates Heated Debate Among Armenians”

1. 

   Enis Pınar

   February 15, 2023

   Eat your heart out Sassounian. From today’s news:

   “The governments of Turkey and Armenia on Wednesday expressed their willingness to accelerate the process of normalization of relations, in the framework of a historic visit of Armenian Foreign Minister Ararat Mirzoian, after Yerevan announced the delivery of aid to the victims of last week’s earthquakes.

   Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu stressed that the visit of his Armenian counterpart ‘is very significant’ and praised Armenia’s delivery of aid. ‘Armenia has said it will deliver additional aid. We thank them for that. Armenia has shown solidarity and cooperation in these difficult days,’ he maintained.

   ‘We need to maintain this solidarity. The process of normalization continues in the South Caucasus,’ Cavusoglu has defended, who has indicated that ‘the process of normalization of relations by Armenia with Turkey and Azerbaijan will contribute to peace and prosperity in the region,’ Turkish daily ‘Hurriyet’ has reported.

   For his part, Mirzoian reiterated Armenia’s willingness to ‘build peace in the region’ and ‘fully normalize and establish diplomatic relations with Turkey’, while showing Yerevan’s willingness to ‘fully open’ the border between the two countries.

   ‘We have discussed certain issues related to this process and we have an agreement to restore the Ani Bridge through joint efforts and address the respective infrastructures in view of the full reopening of the border,’ he said, as reported by Armenian news agency Armenpress.

   Mirzoian has conveyed his condolences to the families of the victims of the earthquakes and advocated that ‘the world should act in a unified front’ whenever there is a natural disaster.’ ‘I believe that the international community should not remain indifferent to the humanitarian crises that take place anywhere in the world,’ he concluded.

   Turkey and Armenia have been engaged for months in a process to normalize their relations, severely damaged by Turkey’s support for Azerbaijan in the conflict over the Nagorno-Karabakh region and by Ankara’s refusal to recognize the Armenian genocide committed by the former Ottoman Empire between 1915 and 1923.

   Source: (EUROPA PRESS)”

   https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/turkey-and-armenia-advocate-accelerating-normalization-during-visit-to-ankara-by-armenian-minister/ar-AA17vTWw?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=a0b92a75a725483c94e5a1f5fefb18f2

   Neither the Armenians nor the Turks are likely to change their positions on the issue of a genocide having occurred or not, and they should not let events which occurred more than a century ago stand in the way of bettering their relations today. Armenia and Azerbaijan need to resolve their differences and Armenia needs to officially recognize Türkiye’s borders with it so that border crossings and rail service can resume between Armenia and Türkiye. Contrary to Sassounian’s venomous diatribe in his article that “The Turkish government is not a friend of Armenia or Armenians”, normalization of relations would benefit all three nations as well as the entire region.
2. 

   Selen Atasoy

   February 22, 2023

   Sahtekarların kralı Mr. Sassounian,

   gülme komşuna gelir başına. Kimse sizi özel olarak yardıma çağırmadı, siz kendiliğinizden geldiniz, Türkiyedeki mutlu kendi halinde yaşayan Ermenilerin hal ve hatırını sormaya. Nerden bilelim senin gibi sahtekarlar casusluk amacı için geldiğini, lan yardımını al başına çal, başımıza kakıç etme , yarın sizin başınıda gelecek bir affette en yakın komşun biziz, Fransa değil.

   Sevin, sevin bakalım senin sonun nasıl olacak, Cahil olan vakitsiz öten horoz gibidir, seninde bu horzdan farkın yok!

   1915 de yapmadığınız ahlaksızlık kalmadı ve tarihe geçti, memleketimin ekmeğini yediniz, suyunu içtiniz yapmadığınız nankörlük kalmadı…bak kaçıyorsunuz 1915 ‘ de kalleşler, Ermeniler , artık doğu ilerimizi tamamen terkederek Kars’ a doğru kaçıyorlardı, çünkü Erzurum ve Bitlis üzerinden harekata geçen askerimiz karları yararak ilerliyorlardı. Ermeniler Erzurum, Erzincan, Bitlis, Muş, Hınıs ve Pülümür’ deki mühimmat depo ve ambarlarına ateş verip kaçıyorlardı. Bu illerden hududa kadar uğradıkları köy ve bölgelerdeki Türk halkını katli-am.(yoketme) etmiş, gebe kadınların karnını deşerek reşimlerini yere dökmüş, memedeki çocukları süngülere takmak, kestikleri insanların derilerinden cep yapmak, gibi türlü zulüm ve vahşetler yapmış, bir aralık kadın, çocuk ve erkek kafilelerini damlara doldurup gazladıkları bir camuşu (camuz) ateşleyip, bunları camuşun ayakları altında ezdirmiş, ve üstelik dama ateş verip bunların hepsini kül etmiş, ve henüz memede olan çocukların karınlarını yarıp tuzlamış, ve bazan bir süt emenin kellesini keserek annesinin karnına sokmuş… İnsanlığa ve akla sığmayacak eziyetlerle doğu illerinde on binden fazla can yakılmış. Ermeniler aynı günde Hınıs’ ın Mirseyit köylü Hasan ağa ve kabilesini basmış burada hayli insan öldürmüş, Hasan ağa ve kardeşleri silaha sarılarak kurtulmuşlardı. Varto’ daki Ermeniler Bingöl eteklerinde kalan bir avuç Lolan halkı üzerine akmış, bunlar: Kestemert köyünde Lolanlı Hüseyin ağa ve akrabası tarafından püskürtülmüş ise de, Karaköy bucağında bulunan Lolan halkından erkek, kadın, çoluk, çocuk, bin kişi evlere doldurularak öldürülmüş ve yakılmiştır..!

   Alman askeri arşivlerinden bu yazdıklarım, inşallah bir gün Den Haak da bütün dünya’ ya bu Ermenilerin , Türklere yaptıkları kaatliamı sergileyeceğiz.Elimizde yeterli delilimiz var.
   Besle kargayı oysun gözünü!

   Selen Atasoy
3. 

   Harut Sassounian

   February 22, 2023

   Selen Atasoy, you should be ashamed for writing such blatant lies. To repent from your sins, I suggest that you change Armenians to Ottoman Turkey in your fake stories and you would get the truth.
   You show your nastiness at the time when Armenia sent aid and rescuers to save Turkish lives. The least you could do is be grateful and stop your racism.
4. 

   Harut Sassounian

   February 22, 2023

   Enis Pinar,

   Turkey will always be an enemy of Armenia until it admits its mass crimes against Armenians, apologizes and makes restitution to the Armenian nation. The proof is that you chose to spew your hatred to Armenians at a time when Armenians are saving Turkish lives. You self-identified yourself as a denialist.
5. 

   Selen Atasoy

   February 22, 2023

   Mr. Barut Sassounian,

   benim çalıştığım yerde 7 senedir sizin hemşeriniz Razdan bir tane bayan temizlik yapıyor. Herhangi bir problemi olduğu zaman devlet daireleyiyle ilgili veya çalıştığı yerdeki kağıt problemlerin’ den hep benim yanıma gelir. Benim Türk olduğumu bildiği halde, hep yardım ettim, Ermeni olduğu için deyil bir insan olduğu için.Ne zaman masamın üstünde bir çiçek görsem bu bayan getirmiştir. Sizin gibi insanlar para karşılığında bize karşı propağanda yapıyor biz bunu biliyoruz!

   Gelelim arşiv belgelerine; 17 senedir, Rus, Gürcü, Japon, Çek, İsviçre , Alman, İngiliz ve Fransız , Mısır, Avusturya , Bulgar, askeri arşivlerinden alınmış orijinalden tastikli belgeler elimizde, bunlar yalan söylemiyor, Den Haag , da bu belgeler konuşaçak. !
6. 

   Harut Sassounian

   February 22, 2023

   Stop your childish name calling. When you have no evidence, you resort to name calling. Have a little respect if you are a human being. You can argue, but do not insult.
   I write nothing for money, unlike you, I will be happy to give you all my money, if you promise to give me all your money.
   Don’t waste your time with the archives of other countries. The most incriminating archives are the Ottoman archives. I have many of them.
7. 

   Enis Pınar

   February 22, 2023

   Mr. Sassounian,

   In your reply to my earlier comment, you have written regarding myself: “The proof is that you chose to spew your hatred to Armenians …” KINDLY SHOW WHERE IN MY COMMENT I HAVE DONE THAT; otherwise, have the decency to apologize which I doubt you have the courage to do. Such visions of hatred you claim see in persons who disagree with your views is called “projection” in psychology, the process of displacing one’s own feelings onto different person(s).

   As regards being a “denialist” of a so-called Armenian “genocide” having taken place, of course I am. Not because of nationalism, but due to factual reasons. For one thing, the crime of genocide did not exist at the time of the mutual bloodshed by all sides in Eastern Anatolia. It was only adopted by the UN General Assembly in 1948 and entered into force in 1951, decades later. Furthermore, also due to the absence of any documentary proof (i.e. “smoking gun”) that the Sultan or the Ottoman government ever ordered the massacre of Armenians during their relocation. To the contrary, I have seen copies of telegrams from the Sublime Porte directing officials overseeing the relocation to protect the lives and property of the Ottoman citizens of Armenian ethnicity being relocated from Eastern Anatolia due to terrorist attacks by Armenian gangs such as the Dashnaksutyun and the Hunchakians. You know, the group of “peaceful Armenians” whose official slogan was: “Those who cannot attain freedom through revolutionary armed struggle are unworthy of it”.

   “You can fool all of the people some of time; you can fool some of the people all of the time, but you can’t fool all the people all the time.” – saying attributed to Abraham Lincoln in The New York Times, August 27, 1887. Something you should keep in mind.
8. 

   Selen Atasoy

   February 22, 2023

   Barut Sassounıan,

   YARASI OLAN GOCUNUR!
9. 

   Selen Atasoy

   February 22, 2023

   Barut Sassounian,

   YARASI OLAN GOCUNUR !
10. 

    Harut Sassounian

    February 23, 2023

    Enis Pinar,

    Stop acting like a virgin bride. You are not. You go back and read what you wrote. You are suffering from short-term amnesia. Let me remind you what you wrote: “Sassounian’s venomous diatribe.” This isn’t exactly a love letter.
    Regarding your lengthy nonsense about the Genocide Convention, I do not need your childish and false explanations. I knew more about Genocide fifty years ago than you will learn in a thousand years.
    Regarding the UN and the Genocide Convention, I was a delegate on human rights at the UN for 10 years. There is hardly anything you can teach me about genocide or the UN. I suggest you read Benjamin Whitaker’s UN report on genocide in 1985 which explicitly cites the Armenian Genocide as a case of Genocide. For your information, there were many genocides committed long before the term genocide was coined. Just like there were millions of murders before the word murder existed.
    I also suggest you read what Ataturk said about the Young Turks killing en masse millions of Turkey’s Christian subjects in an interview published by the Los Angeles Examiner on August 1, 1926.
    I hope you are not foolish enough to call Ataturk a liar, otherwise you will rot in a Turkish jail for the rest of your life.
11. 

    Enis Pınar

    February 23, 2023

    Sassounian,

    Apparently, the only basis you can show for your previous claim that I “chose to spew … hatred to Armenians at a time when Armenians are saving Turkish lives” is my expressing the opinion that your article contains “venomous diatribe”, is that right? So, you consider yourself, editor of a small (est. weekly circulation 3,500 per mondotimes) insignificant weekly newsletter to be representative of ALL Armenians or even of ALL the Armenian Diaspora? Oh, the arrogance and conceit. Which is also evident in your pompous comments such as “I knew more about Genocide fifty years ago than you will learn in a thousand years”, or “There is hardly anything you can teach me about genocide or the UN”.

    Furthermore, your intellectual dishonesty evidences itself in your mention of Benjamin Whitaker’s report labeling the killings as a genocide but failing to mention that the U.N. Commission on Human Rights voted only to take notice of the report, not to approve it or endorse its findings. A fact subsequently confirmed by U.N. spokesman Farhan Haq’s statement that “There is no indication that the U.N. has taken an official position on this”.

    I can also rebut all of your other assertions point-by-point as well, but rather than wasting my time, I would like for you to answer a simple question. In April, 1915 Armenian gangs and the Armenian residents of the city of Van inside the Ottoman Empire, upon hearing that their allies the Russian army was advancing towards the city, engaged in the ethnic cleansing of the Muslim Turkish and Kurdish residents of the city. In that one city alone, approximately 60,000 to 80,000 civilian men, women and children were slaughtered by the Armenians. Doesn’t that constitute an act of “genocide” on the part of the Armenians were one to retroactively apply the term back to that time period? If, as you argue “there were many genocides committed long before the term genocide was coined”, then doesn’t that make Armenians guilty of having committed “genocide” as well? Think about it.

    “Don’t throw stones at your neighbors, if your own windows are glass” – Benjamin Franklin, 1736.
12. 

    Harut Sassounian

    February 24, 2023

    I already told you not to attempt to teach me anything about genocide or the UN. Of course, you did not listen to my advice. OK, remain ignorant and keep exposing your ignorance to the world. I encourage you to do so.
    Regarding the UN Report, once again, you have no idea what you are talking about. You are like a child in a kindergarten who is trying to argue with a Ph.D. I spent 10 years at the UN dealing with the Genocide Report. I doubt you have spent a single minute at the UN and yet you foolishly try to challenge me. Keep going. You obviously like to fall flat on your face.
    The UN terminology is not taking “notice”, but take “note” which is the UN language for adopting the report. If the Whitaker Report was that unimportant why did the powerful Turkish government spent over 15 years lobbying against it and its predecessor Report. Unlike you, I was at every UN meeting until the Report was approved in 1985 with a vote of 15 in favor, 1 against and 4 abstentions. A total and embarrassing defeat for the Republic of Turkey facing one lonely Armenian with no vote, but armed only with the truth. There is justice after all in this world. Lies can only go so far. Regarding Farhan Haq’s claim, I have spoken with him. I doubt you have. All you are doing is regurgitating the Turkish government’s denialist lies. You can get away with lying to your fellow denialists, but not to me. I will nail you each time. Haq told me that he was not referring to the Whitaker Report, but to the General Assembly which has not yet dealt with this issue. I reported his comment in my newspaper. Maybe you should stop reading denialist publications and read more factual sources like my newspaper. You may learn something.
    Regarding Van, you scribbled more Turkish denialist lies. What happened in Van was a matter of self-defense by the local Armenian population. Stop making ridiculous lies about Armenians killing 60,000 to 80,000 Turks. A total fantasy, like everything else you have been writing. I know that your real wish is that Armenians not defend themselves, but be slaughtered like sheep which they were in most other places.
    I politely suggested to you to read Ataturk’s admission of Young Turks killing millions of Christians. I understand that you fear knowing the truth and fear going to jail in case you call Ataturk a liar.
    Finally, don’t worry about my small newspaper. I have a powerful voice because my columns are reprinted in dozens of newspapers and posted on hundreds of websites, translated into many languages around the world.
13. 

    Enis Pınar

    February 24, 2023

    So, without need for any further parsing of words as to whether the committee didn’t take “notice”, but took “note” ; by your own admission we can conclude the following:

    1- In stating “Haq told me that he was not referring to the Whitaker Report, but to the General Assembly which has not yet dealt with this issue” you admit that the findings of the Whitaker Report of a so-called Armenian “genocide” having taken place was never accepted by the United Nations as a whole, only by one of its committees.

    2- That when it comes to acknowledging the fact of Armenians having engaged in ethnic cleansing of Ottoman Turks and Kurds, you yourself are “a genocide denier”. Despite abundant historical evidence to the contrary, both regarding the Armenian “genocide” having taken place in the city of Van as well as the deaths of 523,000 Turks, Kurds and other Muslims killed throughout Anatolia in attacks by Armenian gangs starting from the late 1860’s to 1915 and beyond. A figure mentioned in academic publications such as The Criminal Law of Genocide by Paul Chalfont.

    But since your paranoia of “the powerful Turkish government” being behind any scholarly research precludes your acceptance of facts contrary to your biased beliefs, I would suggest you Google “Attaque d’une mosquee par les Armeniens” and look at the front cover of the 24 November 1895 issue of Le Petit Journal, the leading French magazine of that era. France being a nation not known for its affinity towards the Turks, and try to explain why your “peaceful Armenians” acting only in “self defense” would have been depicted attacking a mosque and its Muslim congregation in 1895. Or how the failed assassination attempt on Sultan Abdul Hamid II by the Armenian Revolutionary Federation (ARF) at Yıldız Mosque on 21 July 1905 killing 40 bystanders was a “defensive act”.

    You, Harut Sassounian, are a hate-filled bigot and no number of facts will ever lead you to even reconsider certain points, let alone change your mind. Therefore, any further discussion with you is pointless. Continue your diatribe “preaching to the converted”. ” I will conclude by what I wrote in my opening comment which you found “hateful”, namely: “Neither the Armenians nor the Turks are likely to change their positions on the issue of a genocide having occurred or not, and they should not let events which occurred more than a century ago stand in the way of bettering their relations today.” You can now go back to preaching hate to those among your steadily dwindling readership as you continue to attack the government of Armenia for seeking peace with its neighbors.
14. 

    Harut Sassounian

    February 24, 2023

    Enis,

    I think you enjoy getting punished. You repeatedly hit your head against the wall. Keep doing it.
    The UN and Genocide are not something you know anything about. So stop pontificating about issues that you are ignorant about. I was at UN meetings discussing the genocide report for 10 years. You were not at the UN for a single minute in your life. Yet you arrogantly and obnoxiously insist on making non-existent claims. A little humility would go a long way. I don’t know what your profession is — I hope you have done — if you do, stick to your profession and stop sticking your nose where it does not belong. For those who know anything about the terms notice and note at the UN, they know that there is a big different. You are not one of them.
    I never told you that the General Assembly has recognized the Armenian Genocide. As I wrote, pay attention to my words, the Assembly General never dealt with this issue. I specifically mentioned the Whitaker Report, something you know nothing about and you are foolishly arguing with someone that knows all about it. Keep hitting your head against the wall. The wall will not give way. Your head will.
    More lies about imaginary killings of 500,000 Turks. What are you smoking? You quote a Paul Chalfont, someone I never heard of. But I am not surprised that one denialist is quoting another denialist. You gave me the name of one denialist. I can give the names of hundreds of eminent historians and genocide scholars who testify to the truth about the Armenian Genocide.
    I know nothing about an attack on a mosque in 1895. But I can tell you plenty of things about dozens of attacks on Armenian churches by your Azeri brothers, not to mention the barbaric attacks on unarmed Armenian elderly, women and children. I will spare you the details of their inhuman actions. I also know a lot about the failed assassination attempt again Sultan Abdul Hamid II (known as H2O). I suggest that you worry more about the 300,000 Armenians that the Sultan killed in the 1890’s. Stop worrying about one criminal Sultan.
    Finally, I suggest that you go back and reread, slowly and carefully, my last two columns about not hating individual Turks, except for denialists like you, which I feel sorry for, but do not hate. You do not deserve my hatred. You are not that important. Armenians want nothing from you. Despite your foolish denials, you did not commit any crimes against Armenians. But Armenians have serious demands from the government of Turkey which is guilty of committing genocide, the most heinous crime, and occupying Western Armenia to this day.
    I hope you learned something from this exchange.