Armenia: the end of the debate?

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Gwynne Dyer

By Gwynne Dyer

Published October 21, 2009

THE FIRST great massacre of the 20th century happened in eastern Anatolia 94 years ago. Armenians all over the world insist that their ancestors who died in those events were the victims of a deliberate genocide, and that there can be no reconciliation with the Turks until they admit their guilt. But now the Armenians back home have made a deal.

On October 10, the Turkish and Armenian foreign ministers signed a accord in Zurich that reopens the border between the two countries, closed since 1993, and creates a joint historical commission to determine what actually happened in 1915. It is a triumph for reason and moderation, so the nationalists in both countries attacked it at once.

The most anguished protests came from the Armenian diaspora: eight million people living mainly in the United States, France, Russia, Iran and Lebanon. There are only three million people living in Armenia itself, and remittances from the diaspora are twice as large as the country’s entire budget, so the views of overseas Armenians matter.

Unfortunately, their views are quite different from those of the people who actually live in Armenia. For Armenians abroad, making the Turks admit that they planned and carried out a genocide is supremely important. Indeed, it has become a core part of their identity.

For most of those who are still in Armenia, getting the Turkish border re-opened is a higher priority. Their poverty and isolation are so great that a quarter of the population has emigrated since the border was closed sixteen years ago, and trade with their relatively rich neighbour to the west would help to staunch the flow.

Moreover, the agreement does not require Armenia to give back the Armenian-populated parts of Azerbaijan, its neighbour to the east. Armenia’s conquest of those lands in 1992-94 was why Turkey closed the border in the first place (many Turks see the Turkic-speaking Azeris as their “little brothers”), so in practical terms Armenian president Serge Sarkisian has got a very good deal.

The communities of the diaspora, however, believe the Armenian government has sold them out on the genocide issue. Their remittances are crucial to Armenia, so President Serge Sarkisian has spent the past weeks travelling the world, trying to calm their fury. In the end, he will probably succeed, if only because they have nowhere else to go.

But can any practical consideration justify abandoning the traditional Armenian demand that Turkey admit to a policy of genocide? Yes it can, because it is probably the wrong demand to be making.

Long ago, when I was a budding historian, I got sidetracked for a while by the controversy over the massacres of 1915. I read the archival reports on British and Russian negotiations with Armenian revolutionaries after the Ottoman empire entered the First World War on the other side in early 1915. I even read the documents in the Turkish General Staff archives ordering the deportation of the Armenian population from eastern Anatolia later that year. What happened is quite clear.

The British and the Russians planned to knock the Ottoman empire out of the war quickly by simultaneous invasions of eastern Anatolia, Russia from the north and Britain by landings on Turkey’s south coast. So they welcomed the approaches of Armenian nationalist groups and asked them to launch uprisings behind the Turkish lines to synchronise with the invasions. The usual half-promises about independence were made, and the Armenian groups fell for it.

The British later switched their attack to the Dardanelles in an attempt to grab Istanbul, but they never warned their Armenian allies that the south-coast invasion was off. The Russians did invade, but the Turks managed to stop them. The Armenian revolutionaries launched their uprisings as promised, and the Turks took a terrible vengeance on the whole community.

Istanbul ordered the Armenian minority to be removed from eastern Anatolia on the grounds that their presence behind the lines posed a danger to Turkish defences. Wealthy Armenians were allowed to travel south to Syria by train or ship, but for the impoverished masses it was columns marching over the mountains in the dead of winter. They faced rape and murder at the hands of their guards, there was little or no food, and many hundreds of thousands died.

If genocide just means killing a lot of people, then this certainly was one. If genocide means a policy that aims to exterminate a particular ethnic or religious group, then it wasn’t. Armenians who made it alive to Syria, then also part of the Ottoman empire, were not sent to death camps. Indeed, they became the ancestors of today’s huge Armenian diaspora. Armenians living elsewhere in the empire, notably in Istanbul, faced abuse but no mass killings.

It was a dreadful crime, and only recently has the public debate in Turkey even begun to acknowledge it. It was not a genocide if your standard of comparison is what happened to the European Jews, but diaspora Armenians will find it very hard to give up their claim that it was. Nevertheless, the grown-ups are now in charge both in Armenia and in Turkey, and amazing progress is being made.

n Gwynne Dyer is a London-based independent journalist whose articles are published in 45 countries.

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GWYNNE DYER has worked as a freelance journalist, columnist, broadcaster and lecturer on international affairs for more than 20 years, but he was originally trained as an historian. Born in Newfoundland, he received degrees from Canadian, American and British universities, finishing with a Ph.D. in Military and Middle Eastern History from the University of London. He served in three navies and held academic appointments at the Royal Military Academy Sandhurst and Oxford University before launching his twice-weekly column on international affairs, which is published by over 175 papers in some 45 countries.

His first television series, the 7-part documentary ‘War’, was aired in 45 countries in the mid-80s. One episode, ‘The Profession of Arms’, was nominated for an Academy Award.  His more recent television work includes the 1994 series ‘The Human Race’, and ‘Protection Force’, a three-part series on peacekeepers in Bosnia, both of which won Gemini awards.  His award-winning radio documentaries include ‘The Gorbachev Revolution’, a seven-part series based on Dyer’s experiences in Eastern Europe and the former Soviet Union in 1987-90, and ‘Millenium’, a six-hour series on the
emerging global culture.

Dyer’s major study “War”, first published in the 1980s, was completely revised and re-published in 2004. During this decade he has also written a trio of more contemporary books dealing with the politics and strategy of the post-9/11 world: ‘Ignorant Armies’ (2003), ‘Future: Tense’ (2004), and ‘The Mess They Made’ (2006).  The latter was also published as ‘After Iraq’ in the US and the UK and as ‘Nach Iraq und Afghanistan’ inGermany.

His most recent projects are a book and a radio series called ‘Climate Wars’, dealing with the geopolitics of climate change. They have already been published and aired in some places, and will appear in most other major markets in the course of 2009.

Many thanks to those who have expressed the wish to be able to submit a donation to the site. ( $20 USD via Pay Pal is now an option)

::: gwynnedyer.net/ca/com is the official website of journalist and historian Dr. Gwynne Dyer. :::

The information is posted free of charge for personal use. Articles are the sole property of Dr. Gwynne Dyer. Communication or submissions to this site become the property of gwynnedyer.com and may be published at our sole discretion

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DYER, GWYNNE

Canadian Journalist/Producer

Gwynne Dyer is a Canadian journalist, syndicated columnist and military analyst. He is best known for his documentary television series, War which echoed the peace movement’s growing concern over the threat of nuclear war in the early 1980s. Nominated for an Oscar in 1985, it was based on his own military experience and extensive study.

After serving in the naval reserves of Canada, the United States, and Britain, Dyer completed his doctoral studies in Military History at King’s College, University of London in 1973. He lectured on military studies for the next four years at the Royal Military Academy in Sandhurst, England before producing a seven-part radio series, Seven Faces of Communism for the CBC and ABC in 1978. This quickly led to another radio series, War, in six-parts, 1981. Based on this series, he was invited by the National Film Board of Canada, the country’s public film producer to enlarge it into a seven-part film series in 1983. Upon release to critical acclaim, the series was broadcast in forty-five countries.

War was a reflection of Dyer’s own growing concern about the proliferation of new technology, its impact on the changing nature of warfare and the growing threat of nuclear annihilation. Filmed in ten countries and with the participation of six national armies, it examined the nature, evolution and consequences of warfare. It featured interviews with top level NATO and Warsaw Pact military leaders and strategists, many of whom spoke to the Western media for the first time. The series argued that in an era of total war, professional armies were no longer able to fulfill their traditional roles. The growth of nationalism, conscript armies and nuclear technology had brought the world perilously close to Armageddon. War offered the unique perspective of the soldier from the rigorous training of young U.S. marine recruits at the Parris Island Training Depot in South Carolina, to the field exercises conducted by NATO and Warsaw Pact countries in Europe. It presented military officers from both sides talking frankly about how nuclear technology had changed their profession and follows them as they vividly describe how any superpower conflict would inevitably lead to an all out nuclear war. Dyer argued that the danger posed by the explosive mix of ideology and nuclear technology could only be mitigated by a total elimination of nuclear arsenals.

This award-winning series was soon followed by another production for the National Film Board of Canada in 1986, The Defence of Canada, an examination of Canada’s military role on the international scene. Following similar arguments postulated in War, Dyer called for Canada to set an example by rethinking its position in NATO and NORAD. He maintained his ties in the Soviet Union and in 1988-90 produced a six-part radio series The Gorbachev Revolution which followed the thunderous changes occurring in Eastern Europe. He served as a military commentator in Canada during the Gulf War and in 1994 his series The Human Race was broadcast nationally on the CBC. It was a personal enquiry into the roots, nature and future of human politics and the threat posed by tribalism, nationalism and technology to the world’s environment. He continues to publish his syndicated column on international affairs which is published on over 300 papers in some 30 countries.

-Manon Lamontagne


Gwynne Dyer

GWYNNE DYER. Born in St. John’s, Newfoundland, Canada, 17 April 1943. Educated at the Memorial University of Newfoundland, B.A. in History, 1963; Rice University in Houston, Texas, U.S.A., M.A. in Military History, 1966; King’s College, University of London, Ph.D. in Military and Middle Eastern History, 1973. Served as Reserve Naval Officer in Royal Canadian Naval Reserve, 1956-64, 1966-68; U.S. Naval Reserve, 1964-66; British Royal Navy Reserve, 1968-73. Employed as a lecturer in military history, Canadian Forces College in Toronto, Ontario; senior lecturer in war studies, Royal Military Academy at Sandhurst, England, 1973-77; producer of various radio and television special series from 1978; syndicated columnist, international affairs from 1973. Recipient: International Film Festival Awards; International Film Festival Awards, 1984; Best Writing Gemini for The Space Between, 1986.

TELEVISION DOCUMENTARY SERIES

1983 War (co-writer/host)
1986 Defence of Canada
1994 The Human Race (host)

FILMS

The Space Between, 1986 (co-writer/host); Harder Than It Looks, 1987; Escaping from History, 1994 (writer); The Gods of Our Fathers, 1994 (writer); The Tribal Mind, 1994 (writer); The Bomb Under the World, 1994 (writer).

RADIO

Seven Faces of Communism, 1978; Goodbye War, 1979 (writer/narrator); War, 1981; The Gorbachev Revolution, 1988-90; Millennium, 1996.

FURTHER READING

“Dyer’s Contrived Truth Doesn’t Tackle the Real Consequences.” Vancouver (Canada) Sun, 3 September 1994.

Dodds, Carolyn. “Too Close for Comfort.” Saturday Night (Toronto, Canada), August 1988

“Recording a Global Culture.” Maclean’s (Toronto, Canada), 25 March, 1996.

See also Canadian Programming in English


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8 responses to “Armenia: the end of the debate?”

  1. Mr.Gwynne Dyer,

    You wrote: “Unfortunately, their views are quite different from those of the people who actually live in Armenia.” It is not true. 50-70% of the people of the Republic of Armenia are descendants of the ARMENIAN GENOCIDE victims, so we are also against the relations with denialist turks!!! WE CAN FORGIVE TURKS AFTER THEY RECOGNIZE THE ARMENIAN GENOCIDE. The Protocols will remain on the papaers…

    As compared with Jews, who were slaughtered in different countries, Armenians during Genocide have lost also their LAND -the WESTERN ARMENIA!!! Jews after Holocaust have got their dream – ISRAEL!!!

  2. Mr.Gwynne Dyer

    There are many mistakes in your article, Ii have make corrections!!!

    “THE FIRST GENOCIDE of the 20th century happened in WESTERN ARMENIA 94 years ago. Armenians all over the world insist that their ancestors who died in those events were the victims of a deliberate genocide, and that there can be no reconciliation with the Turks until they admit their guilt. But now the Armenians back home have made a deal … UNDER THE PRESSURE OF USA and RUSSIA !!!

  3. ANNA=ROZA=SONNA=HILDA=JDA=The RAT,

    We’re still waiting for you dashnak Armenians to admit to the genocides that you committed against many different ethnic groups (2.5M Turks, Greeks, Kurds, Georgians, Persians, Tartars, Azeris, Arabs, Jews), before, during and after WWI, and then again during WWII, and then again in 1992!! Let’s not forget your terrorists and their murderous activities during the early 1970’s to the late 1980’s!!! How long will the archives in Yerevan and Boston remain closed to the public? Why do 6,000 Armenians escape from Armenia today, every 1-2 weeks, and come to Turkey to live? You dashnaks run away from any question posed to you (typical Armenian tactic exhibiting total comardice)! There NEVER was an “Armenian Genocide”!! Even the UN says so!!

    BTW RAT, the first true “genocide” of the 20th century was by the Germans against the Hoers. The next true “genocide” of the 20th century was by the US military as they wiped out thousands of Fillipinos in 1903! You’d do well to learn something before writing ridiculous statements!

    If you dashnaks want real peace, then go to the floor of the UN and admit to the 100 year old con job by you Armos upon Christian nations, conning them to give you free handouts! Then you must admit that it was the dashnak Armenians who committed mass atrocities against Moslems (and even non-Moslems)! Next, Armenia must pay restitution to all the people’s that they have hurt, and finally relinquish NK to the Azerbaijani’s so that they may return to their own homes!!!

  4. Hilda ????? Who is Hilda Mr. GREAT RAT!!! You have lively imagination! 🙂

    FYI: I advance know your stupid thoughts, so I don’t read your nonsenses! 🙂

    Adio stupid RAT!!!
    🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 🙂 ……………..

  5. We are all guilty…

    And we owe thousands, millions of apologies…

    http://www.hairenik.com/weekly/2009/10/20/eren-keskin-we-are-all-guilty/

    Eren Keskin: We Are All Guilty!

  6. Nice try RAT,

    How quickly you forget? Hilda was one of your earlier aliases! You still refuse to discuss reality and continue being a denialist! You continue to try to divert attention away from the genocides that your dashnaks committed before, during and after WWI (read the banned from Armenia book written by Armenia’s first President/PM! He admits to everything!! Also, don’t forget Ohanus Appressian’s confessions in his book! These are mere examples of the mountains of evidence against you dashnaks! Why do you think your dashnaks have never been able to take any legal action in any court in the world aginst Turkey? Go ahead, provide one single verdict handed down by any court in the world against us which was in favor of dashnak Armenians!! You can’t because dashnaks can’t ever afford to go to a court, because to do so would mean that they’d have to provide unaltered evidence, which they can’t do! What dashnaks have as “evidence” would be thrown out by any court as being forged, altered and fabricated (just as they did in the Nuremburg War Crime Trials, where they PROVED that Hitler NEVER made that statement “Who remembers the Armenians”, but you dashnaks still shamelessly try to pass off to ignorant and paied off politicians as being factual! This is why you run away from debating us in a public forum, with full media coverage!))!!

    So ANNA=JDA=The RAT, Take your smoke and mirror dog and pony road-show elswhere and stop wasting our time with your typical, tired, dashnak propagandal BS!!! No one believes you anymore anyway! You’re losing on several legal grounds everywhere already! It’s simply just a matter of time now!! Go sell your snake oil somewhere else!!

  7. Garo Avedis Avatar
    Garo Avedis

    ATTN.MR.GWYNNE DYER

    IN RESPONCE TO YOUR RECENT ARMENIAN ARTICALES.
    F*CK YOU, YOU ARE NOTHING BUT TRASH.
    FROM A GRANDSON OF ARMENIAN
    GENOCIDE SURVIVORS,
    CURRENTLY IN U.S.A.
    ONE OF MY GRANDMOTHERS A YOUNG BRIDE OF 17 YEARS OLD WALKED FROM GURUN, SIVAS .ALL THE WAY TO ALEPPO, SYRIA, (MORE TO 1000 KILOMETERS) WHILE PREGNANT WITH ONE YEAR OLD CHILD, NONE OF HER CHILDRENS SURVIVED. (UNBORN AND ONE YEAR OLD) SHE AND HER SISTER ARE THE SOLE SURVIVORS ALONG WITH SISTER IN LAW;(HUSBAND, HIS FAMILY AND HER FAMILY ALL BUTCHERED) SHE WILL GLADLY SPIT ON YOUR FACE IF SHE WAS ALIVE.

  8. Garo=JDA=The RAT,

    You never stop with these aliases, do you? The chances were extremely great that your grandmother, sister and children were the victims of attacking bandits, or disease, starvation and thirst…just like the thousands of Turks and other Moslems and non-Armenians who were also part of the relocation from the Eastern regions, thanks to the traitorous, treacherous and barbarric actions of your dashnak Armenians creating a 5th column within the Ottoman military (do you even know what that is?)! As these people sucumbed, they were all buried in common mass graves where they fell, with no seperation of who was who (there weren’t enough people, resources or time to do so!)! This was a time of war and great turmoil! I’m sorry for your family’s losses, but that was what befelled everyone during the relocation occurring during that period, once again, as a direct result of the murderous actions of your dashnak Armenian brethren.

    Okay, to counter, my grandfather and what was left of his family, friends, relatives and neighbors were the only surviviors as they escaped from the horrors of true ethnic cleansing and GENOCIDE committed by the dashnak Armenians in VAN (where over 20K Turks were massacred by these Satan-worshipping dashnak Armenians in a two-day period!), KARS, ERZURUM, ERZINCAN! Luckily, they had the foresight to document everything (these documents are now in the archives in Turkey and will be used when the mass criminal and civil suits begin against Armenia! We’re going to demand, and know we will receive, retribution in the form of reperations/compensation and all of the lands taken illegally in the NK region from Azerbaijan!). They have everything on record, unlike the vast majority of dashnak Armenian stories passed down from one generation to the next, and almost always undocumented! One dashnak Armenian actually posted on a forum site that his grandmother’s brother’s, friend’s sister’s teacher’s former student had suppossedly wittnessed an alledged crime committed by a few men dressed in Ottoman uniforms agaisnt some Armenians, but wasn’t sure they were Turks since many dashnak Armenians wore their Ottoman uniforms as they massacred thousands, then tore them off and wore regular clothes, cowardly hiding among the civillians as the Ottoman soldiers returned and the Russians retreated (they couldn’t escape in time to join the Russians). They knew what would happen to them once the Turkish soldiers discovered what these animal dashnak Armenians had done to their own families while they were away fighting, and then captured them!

    Mr. Dyer is right on and quite correct GARO!! If my grandfather, or any of his relatives were still alive, they’d glady spit in your face! Even your own first President admits everything in his book (which is still banned to this day in Armenia), all of the atrocities committed against innocent Turks and Moslems by the Dashnak Armenians! Ohanus Appressian gloats in the book “Men Are Like That” (1926) about how he and numerous other dashnak Armenians gleefully slaughtered infants, pregnant women, children, old men and women in their bloodlust! All copies of this book have “mysteriously” disappeared from most of Europe’s libraries!

    So GARO, from the grandson of a Turkish survivor and his relatives of the GENOCIDE committed by dashnak Armenians (518K Turks for a total of 2.5M Turks, Armenians, Kurds, Greeks, Persians, Georgians, Tartars, Azeris, Arabs, Jews), I will tell you right to your face…F**K YOU! YOU’RE NOTHING BUT TRASH, JUST LIKE YOUR DASHNAK ARMENIAN RELATIVES WHO WERE NOTHING MORE THAN PUPPETS OF THE RUSSIANS, BRITISH AND THE FRENCH! May they all do their eternal dance in HELL for their king and God…SATAN!!! Now go and sodimize a defenseless animal, or whatever other sick things that you’re probably into, and stop wasting everyone’s time!

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